Kiel Phegley: Phase two of this controversy comes from Rob Liefeld, logged on to Twitter and “As the guy that created, designed and wrote his first dozen appearances, Shatterstar is not gay. Sorry. Can’t wait to someday undo this. Seems totally contrived.”

As the Editor-in-Chief, how do you respond to that? It’s one thing to have disagreements internally at Marvel creative summits, but do matters change when those internal debates become public?

Joe Quesada: I’ve got to be honest with you, this is the first I’ve heard about Rob’s comments, so I can only react to what you’re telling me here, but there really isn’t much I can say about it except scratch my head. I like Rob, but Peter is the creator who’s writing the book, and ultimately while Rob is one of the guys who created Shatterstar, Shatterstar is a Marvel character and not a Rob Liefeld character. If this was done to a character in “Youngblood,” then Rob has every right to do what he wants to with it.

I hate to be that cold-blooded about it, but I’ve created characters for Marvel as well and at the end of the day, they’re Marvel’s and not mine. What Marvel wants to do with them is what Marvel wants to do with them. That’s my clear understanding of how things work when I do work-for-hire, to claim otherwise would be silly. It is work-for-hire. The characters are Marvel’s, and if that’s the way the characters are written, then that’s the way the character is. If Rob wants to publicly disagree with that, that’s his right, and I respect that. But if Rob is intending on flipping what Peter has written, he will have to wait to discuss that with the next Editor-in-Chief.

CUP O’ JOE Interview

I took the above quotes from a great Comic Book Resources Interview, click link above. I did however put in bold text some points I would like to highlight.

The above point in concern to the Shatterstar comic book character, is just another clear example of how a creator of a character can have one intention. But basically that intention means nothing if you have no ownership rights over your character.

Basically, whoever owns the character can do whatever they want with it. Even if the person who made and created the character completely objects to how the character is being portrayed.

Ir really is a messed up situation when you think about it. And I guess comic books are one of the industries this still happens in.

Peter David had NOTHING to do with the creation of Shatterstar. It’s also funny that he is a great writer. But he is great at writing other people’s creations. His most famous being his Hulk writing. A character he also never created. On his own, he’s never created a character that has had a lasting impact. At least in terms of the average comic fan knowing and acknowledging the character and book he created on his own.

Rob Liefeld created, designed, and named Shatterstar. Without Liefeld, there would be no such character at Marvel comics. Yet, just like all those Golden and Silver Age creators, comic creators in the Modern Age of the early ’90’s still had no real ownership and creative rights to their creations in the Work-For-Hire companies. And this is in regard to the Big Two companies.

Though there is a royalty incentive since the 1980’s, it’s never been made public just what those percentages compile. Is it just comics? What of other merchandise? But my instinct tells me what you get percent wise, is nothing like the percent and ownership you’d have if it were in another field such as book publishing, or in the film industry.

This also brings up another good point I’ve mentioned before and that is: Why create any new characters you have, and bring them to a work-for-hire company?

You really should not in my opinion.

This is not the the 1960’s or even the 1980’s. Where for all intents, you really could not have a successful comic book published outside of the big two companies. And one wherein you owned the rights to your creations.

With other publishers out now such as IDW, Dark Horse and especially Image Comics. Their are means and ways to own your characters nowadays, in a way that really did not exist before.

Could you imagine for example Robert Kirkman’s “The Walking Dead” comic published by Marvel? It would have been watered down by now, and the book forced into meaningless crossovers.

By being owned by Kirkman, the books integrity is still their.

That’s another problem with Work-For-Hire, and that is keeping a books integrity.

It really is all but impossible to work for a publisher, and keep your book title and vision for the series isolated. And to therefore build how you see that world in your book. Another great example of this is writer JMS leaving the Thor series. And the main cause it seems is Marvel wants to force a company wide crossover into the Thor book. And writer JMS really does not want a crossover interfering with the integrity of his Thor series and what he is trying to create.

When you look at Marvel and DC Comics over the last ten to twenty years, how many new characters have been created that have had lasting power? It really is no wonder with the above creative rights examples, that new characters should not be created and added to their already robust character rosters.

Besides, you would probably make more financially by owning your own book and character, then to settle for a small percent royalty fee from the Big Two publishers. And with Hollywood looking for any comic property they can get, they might be knocking at your door.

And if it does not work out, you could always sell your book and creations to another publisher. This option does not exist or work in reverse, if you don’t already own your character and book.

The only real downside for the Big Two is, new characters bring new creative ideas with them. Without new characters, new ideas will not flow. And how long can you keep putting the characters you already have through the same motions before it becomes boring and trite.

But I suppose the opposite side should also be mentioned: If you do create new characters for the Big Two, know what you are getting into. And don’t complain after the fact how they are portrayed and what little financially you may get. Ignorance is Not Bliss in comic books anymore. This is not like the 1960’s where your options were limited. You have much more creative publishing freedom in today’s comic book market and it does not hurt to take advantage of that.

In fact, it might be in your best interest to take advantage of that.

I was thinking about comic books and while the G.I. Joe Universe really expanded as a comic book property. In truth, I really see the G.I. Joe Universe and characters as not comic book characters per say, but rather as the original idea of it being an action figure line and property.

The fact that it expanded into comic books is a side note.

With that said, I was thinking which G.I. Joe and Cobra characters on their own, could have existed as legitimate comic book characters that could hold their own book and survive in comic book related worlds such as the Marvel Universe, or the DC Universe. Basically, cutting off the whole idea of the G.I. Joe Universe, and taking the character as a solo hero and villain in their own right.

I put up Destro, Cobra Commander, Zartan and the Baroness as good villains that could populate any comic book only world.

Storm Shadow is also great and a good anti-hero of sorts.

But Snake Eyes, I find to be a unique character that could hold not only his own book, but an original enough creation that has not been seen in comics decades prior.

All throughout the ’30’s Golden Age, into the ’80’s I have not found a comic book character quite like Snake Eyes. And that is saying something.

With Snake Eyes in essence, you have a mute hero, with not only ninja skills but military skills as well. A hero with a tragic past, flaws and mystery. As well as a loyal ally who would never betray you. Plus, despite his seemingly extraordinary skills, he does not have any superpowers.

But like an anti-hero of sorts, he does kill his opponents if he has to, and does not give it a second thought. It’s part of the job being in the military and a soldier.

His all black costume, in the tradition of all great heroes, just looks visually cool. And even his name is cool, Snake Eyes.

I also don’t think it’s a surprise that Snake Eyes is usually at the top of the list, or near the top when it comes to a who is your favorite G.I. Joe character polls.

Like Star Wars Boba Fett, the character of Snake Eyes has that enigmatic coolness factor about him.

When all is said though, even though he started out as nothing more then part of an action figure line. Snake Eyes is the type of hero who could easily translate into a comic book only universe. And when you take up all the factors that make up the character, I find him to be an original enough creation that has not existed in comic books before. And that is tough to find. Especially when you think about over 50 years of comic book history.

I wonder how many other modern day comic creations can say that?

I wrote the following blog post in another group on 4/19/08 but since I’m shutting that group down soon. I thought I’d post it here, because it’s a good post and I still want it out there.

I was on a comic forum and posted this reply. Thought it was worth putting here. It concerns how people writing the books now. Such as on Superman, Spider-Man and all those icons you know. How the books published now. None of them feature the work of the original creators who made them.

Making the books now are people who never created them.

It’s a bit heady stuff, and you might need to be a fan or know more to understand the context. But I hope what I’m getting across can be understood.

Some context is: (When I say Lee I mean Stan Lee and Ditko is for Steve Ditko. For those who didn’t know.) They co-created Spider-Man. Lee on writing, Ditko on art. Back then it wasn’t a direct full script writing. Lee would give his artists an outline. The artist was free to pace and draw the story how he felt fit, and whatever elements he wanted, the artist would put in such as how the story would go.

Then Lee would see the art pages and then make up the caption dialogue on the spot. Then they would look at and edit the art or writing. But usually there wasn’t much to do. Just fix a panel or part of a page here or there for the book.

Also Kirby is for Jack Kirby, he was the artist with Stan Lee who co-created the Hulk character.

The Silver Age refers to an explosion of new character’s made in the ’60’s. Most think it had a cut off point and every book after was a new age. I disagree and think every book ended at a certain point in their run. They did not all end at the same time.

Anyway here it is:

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For me any other creator who takes over another’s creation. That creation is no longer the same, or at least as legitimate.

I hate to say it but “the real and true” Spider-Man left after Ditko left the book.

It’s tough when two or more people create a book. If it is one person who made a book or certain character. When he leaves, then the character is truly in another’s hands and not the real creators.

With a co-creation we still have one of the creators, in this case Lee, and there is still a legitimate creative hand there. It’s different, but not the same. If that makes sense.

Because let’s face it, if Ditko were still on it. The series would Never have went the way Romita and Lee brought the book. It would have been vastly different.

But after Lee left in the early 100’s. And other’s hands took over the book. Then the creation is truly not the work of it’s creators. It becomes something else entirely.

Another example is the Hulk, I know other’s filled in, but it wasn’t a long gap and Kirby was back. But after Kirby had no creative hand in the series for a long time and Lee left. Then the character lost it’s creators.

I think it’s okay if a creator, or the creator of a character series takes a leave. But when his hand is entirely gone from the series. The it becomes something else the character. Not quite true to what it once was.

I used to think like others that the books and characters keep going and going.

One thing I like on Manga is there is usually a series end and that’s when it’s creators leave and wrap up the book. No one else takes over. With superhero comics when one person leaves, another just takes over.

I mean in books would you consider a Lord of the Rings material legitimate and canon if it were not written by Tolkien?

Would you consider a Star Wars movie legitimate if Lucas had no hand in it?

Yet in superheroes, when it’s characters creators leave a series. It’s still seen as legitimate work.

I wonder why? Just because a publisher put a label on it approved and printed it? Think about it, if you wrote the title and had an artist to draw it. Then Marvel printed it. Your work would be considered just as legit as the writers at Marvel now. It’s the fact that they put a label and approve it that makes the difference. But just like them, you never created these characters. So the line between fan and pro in this regards I think is thin.

The Silver Age had endings. But not one vast cutoff point that others like to use. Each series was different, and ended at a different time. But when Lee left the writing, and others took over the books of all his co-creations. Then the last gasp of the Silver Age was truly over.

Other writers are more true to the original writing by Lee, but it’s not the same either way. It just varies by degree who is closer to that original vision. Some bring it close and others bring a far different perspective.

Working for a company where you have no creative control or rights, such as Marvel or DC your creation can be ripped and changed from you and you can’t do a thing about it.

Sadly the Marvel Comics now I think have become just as commercial as DC Comics and the heart is not there. The creators who were around then or worked with the original creators are long gone.

Look who is at Marvel now. Young guys in there 30’s mostly. I remember for example Mark Miller saying he only read a few Wolverine issues, the best stories of his, and not the rest and wondered why read his crap stories?

Then I thought, many fans and I have read more stories and therefore know the character better then him. Yet Mark Miller is writing the book.

I realized when it gets to that point, where the reader has more knowledge of the character, then the books writer. I thought:

A. Writing comics is easier then I thought. Or to fake it and can get by, even if you don’t know the character well.

B. Such a book is not worth following.

Also on the boards in the Spectacular reboot a few years ago, the writer whose name I forgot was asking for information about Carnage. Then I was like, I know more about Carnage then him, yet he’s going to write the character and barely knows him.

I think comics writing has become too serious now and real world. The current MU is just not fun or worth following anymore. If I wanted real world, I’d look at the papers.

I’ll get to a more fun topic next time. Too much thinking on this post.