I hear a lot of arguments about who created the Marvel Universe, was it Stan Lee or Jack Kirby who deserves all the credit?
And I’ve seen passionate Kirby fans argue that: Stan Lee only did dialogue. And Kirby made all the creative ideas.
Even though, it’s established fact Lee gave plot ideas in writing. Later on, over the phone in a conversation, and not a written script.
I don’t think it’s fare to say Stan Lee had no real creative role at all, in Marvel Comics success. And that it’s all Kirby.
Here is why:
If it was a writer just making, one or two books. Giving a plot and dialogue, I could understand the view. Of saying Lee didn’t do much.
But the truth is, after I read the Stan Lee book he wrote about those days.
Excelsior: The Amazing Life of Stan Lee
The guy was a work horse. And DESERVES co-creator credit and his just due in the Marvel Universe.
-Stan Lee had to run the plates, to the presses to make sure the books were published. This is off memory, I got to find the book. But basically it seems, he had the job of bringing the art to the printing presses. This alone, I think qualifies for a full time job.
- He was the editor, who had to control about a dozen books. He had to talk, scout out, and hire talent. As well as place them in various jobs.
- Stan Lee had to write, at the very least, all the dialogue of these books.
- He had to read and answer the mail in the various letter columns for all the books, and write the bulletin pages.
- He had to answer to his bosses and other people, at any given time.
And a few more things I’m forgetting, but were written in the book .
Take all this into account: And tell me honestly, that Stan Lee didn’t create much, or that he was not also largely responsible for Marvel Comics success? It’s not just about making comics. It’s all the other jobs as well, that we the public are not privy to.
He was running at least 3 full time jobs, each in their own right. As an editor, as a guy handling all the letter columns, and bulletin pages. And as a writer.
I can picture it, and it must have been a nonstop pace. Something was always happening.
And as for character credit?
It’s a known fact that he talked with his artists. Plots and ideas went back and forth. Later on the artists, wrote plots without Lee.
But all the establishing stuff, and book concepts and characters to start with were talked over. It was a co-creative work.
And really in my opinion, Stan Lee did create a lot. And yes, he did help to co-create these characters.
His Marvel method, also I think brought the best out of both worlds.
The artist paced the story himself. And had to figure out how to make the panels and what to do, in the visual sense. Yet, at the same time, he had an outline to follow of what to do and where the story needed to go.
The writer had new ideas to work with in the art, and script it coherently to tell a great story.
It was the best of both worlds.
Both Contributed!
That’s how comics should be. An artist and writer, both adding there creative ideas. And the completed whole, is the best of both.
Problem I see with the old world of Full Script method is: The artist really has no creative function and is a Drone. Some artists might like working that way, and easier to do, just follow orders. But if I were an artist, I’d hate it. It is not in my view, too creative.
If you give a full script to 10 different artists, the resulting work would be very similar and almost the same.
In Full Script, the Writer dictates it all. And the Artist, is just a Tool and Replaceable.
In the Marvel method. The artist is helping to co-create. And give those same 10 artists this style, and you’d end up with 10 different stories, with some similarities.
Also an artist naturally knows better how to visually pace a story then a writer, who can’t draw to pace a story using visuals. It’s just the artists nature.
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Back to Kirby fans who try to imply Kirby did it all, or at least most of it.
I have to disagree, it was a co-creative work. And while the Marvel Universe you know would be drastically different without Kirby and what he contributed. Which was a huge lot. It’s only fair to acknowledge, in a Kirby only world without Lee, there would not be a Marvel Universe as we know it either.
It was both a Kirby and Lee creation that made the majority of the Marvel Universe. It was a co-creation, and I’m cool with that.